Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sculptor1]

Very true, though the preceding post referenced: "Free Will is a legal and religiously legitimated means to social control". (not my definition).

Whatever original religious thinkers intended, the Doctrine of Free Will has the effect of legitimating a punitive moral code. I am not nearly expert enough to include a critique of theories of Free Will among learned theologians.

The Doctrine of Determinism legitimises a far better punitive moral system, since determinism recognises the cause and effect of crime, and the cause and effects of rehabilitation.
On the other hand if we can ignore deterministic effects and act willfully despite determinism then that means puitive measures such as deterence, and effective measures such as imprisonment and reform is null and void.
If people have ultimate free will then the only penal system that works is capital punishment.

There is no "Doctrine of Determinism". I agree about determinism which is expressed by Jesus on the Cross when he said of the Roman soldiers

And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 35And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. 36And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, 37And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. 38And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Matthew.

This from Jesus departs from the much older punitive tradition expressed in the earlier OT regarding Jahweh the tribal deity. Obviously Jesus considers peoples' intentions and makes it possible to actually feel forgiveness.

Rubbish.
My phrase doctrine of determinism was a response to doctrine of free will. And exist in exactly the same way.
Jesus had no understanding of this issue, and the entire Christian cannon is a total confusion of the whole debate, which makes Christianity a total laughing stock.
The contradictions about free will and god omnipotence, and omnicience has caused the death of countless numbers of people.

[Sakla]

Maybe he created the human experience as a simulation, with a sort of set system of operation, kind of like karmic law. It does seem that in the end, people who treat people and life bad do indeed get what they have coming by there own actions. I am not religious, but found an interesting psalm which says that evil people fall into the very pit they created for others. I was reading a scientific magazine and scientists were taking pictures way out into space and the scientists said that something looked as if there was nothing beyond there farthest reaching telescope, as if what we are in were "projected", I mean a projected image...like a simulated reality on a God-like level of ability...like those goggles we have but way more advanced. Evil ends up killing it's own self in the end. Everything that is good always remains, like survival of the fittest. Evil is insecure and feeds off good like cancer, which destroys itself in the end.

[Belindi]

Maybe he created the human experience as a simulation, with a sort of set system of operation, kind of like karmic law. It does seem that in the end, people who treat people and life bad do indeed get what they have coming by there own actions. I am not religious, but found an interesting psalm which says that evil people fall into the very pit they created for others. I was reading a scientific magazine and scientists were taking pictures way out into space and the scientists said that something looked as if there was nothing beyond there farthest reaching telescope, as if what we are in were "projected", I mean a projected image...like a simulated reality on a God-like level of ability...like those goggles we have but way more advanced. Evil ends up killing it's own self in the end. Everything that is good always remains, like survival of the fittest. Evil is insecure and feeds off good like cancer, which destroys itself in the end.

Good may be the default reality, however in this life evil wins over good countless times. There is no such thing as karma, which was invented in order to make the poor and downtrodden feel better.

an interesting psalm which says that evil people fall into the very pit they created for others.

Without knowing what psalm you refer to I agree it is true that to do evil is bad for the psyche. It is impossible to get through life without doing evil, and this is where the grace of God comes in to forgive out of His mercy, however you have to sincerely repent.

Not everyone likes God talk. The psychological implication is thinking, saying, and doing evil creates a habit that influences what the subject hopes to do in the future.