Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[SneakySniper179]

I believe that religion does a disjustice to whatever created us. I personally believe that it explains something in simpler terms than needed which causes misinterpretations of something that needs to be interpreted by an individual. We see this all the time in different ways of believing in the same religion which comes predominantly from Abrahamic religions. We use god and the devil as a way to understand why humans act a certain way and usually I believe that the devil is a cop out for the evils of man. Many people who do terrible things believe that they are the son of the devil, A demon, or corrupted by dark forces where mental illness can explain all of these things.

Humans don't need a force to corrupt us. Humans are an evil that can create another evil and keep perpetuating the cycle over and over until the end of time. People hate God or whatever created us because they blame him for our suffering but without it, we would be nothing. Our original sin is just being Man, it's being conscious. We love good things but at the same time, Without evil, Without suffering we would be bored and would inevitably create it.

It will never end for that reason. For the same reason we relish love and I believe that's why people look back at their childhoods with such fondness, because children don't know the harshness of man until they are taught it and they don't get the burden until they reflect on it. Personally I love this life and everything that comes with it. Every culture has a good or evil, a yin and yang. It's the nature of being. Good times, bad times. Personally I fell into a belief of atheism, I believed if god existed he hated us. I believed the nature of life was to suffer and that caused suffering in the core of my being from years of being a good catholic, Believing everything I was told.

I am not worried about death or anything as trivial as that. It's not something I have much control over. I will say I don't want anyone undeserving of suffering to suffer but my thoughts on the matter do not matter. Trying to learn about god from the bible is like trying to learn math from a book on spanish. The answers are not in one book but many books. I do have an appreciation of religion and I am open to the fact that I may be wrong. Everything in that book may be true. But that would go against everything we know of science and life itself. Please let me know what you think of this. I would love some opinions on my theory.

[NickGaspar]

-"I believe that religion does a disjustice to whatever created us"
-Poisoning the well fallacy. We were not created. As we can observe, we came in to existence through natural processes.

-" I personally believe that it explains something in simpler terms than needed which causes misinterpretations of something that needs to be interpreted by an individual."
-This is why we use science not religions to explain our world.

-"Humans don't need a force to corrupt us. Humans are an evil that can create another evil and keep perpetuating the cycle over and over until the end of time."
-Of course we need a "force to corrupt us. ITs called environment (prevellant economic system).

-"People hate God or whatever created us because they blame him for our suffering but without it, we would be nothing."
-The biggest percentage of people in Western Europe don't hate god. They don't even believe in any god claim that hasn't met its burden. That is an irrational belief to hold (not wrong since it is unfalsifiable).

Before I continue making my points I have to ask you this. What makes you believe that supernatural religious beliefs have a place in Philosophy?????

[SneakySniper179]

-"I believe that religion does a disjustice to whatever created us"
-Poisoning the well fallacy. We were not created. As we can observe, we came in to existence through natural processes.

-" I personally believe that it explains something in simpler terms than needed which causes misinterpretations of something that needs to be interpreted by an individual."
-This is why we use science not religions to explain our world.

-"Humans don't need a force to corrupt us. Humans are an evil that can create another evil and keep perpetuating the cycle over and over until the end of time."
-Of course we need a "force to corrupt us. ITs called environment (prevellant economic system).

-"People hate God or whatever created us because they blame him for our suffering but without it, we would be nothing."
-The biggest percentage of people in Western Europe don't hate god. They don't even believe in any god claim that hasn't met its burden. That is an irrational belief to hold (not wrong since it is unfalsifiable).

Before I continue making my points I have to ask you this. What makes you believe that supernatural religious beliefs have a place in Philosophy?????

-I believe that religion is a big sense of our being and I believe that you are not understanding my points properly. Sure we need an environment but that can be a natural environment. Everything needs an environment. A world without one would be too abstract and non existent.

-Humans will do what they do in the nature of there personally type caused by the chemistry in there brain regardless of life experiences. Even some people with good lives steal, murder, rape and commit other heinous crimes.

-Many people don't have complete contempt for a God but they do blame him for there problems and get angry at him for our suffering because he is all loving. A good causation of this would be natural death and mortality.

-To answer your final question I believe it's inherent in human nature to believe in a higher power because it's seen in everywhere humans are unless supressed by the government and there surroundings. A good portion of people believe in something bigger than us and create their own ideals of the creator based on the way their society is structured.

[Alias]

I believe that religion does a disjustice to whatever created us.

If something created us, we'd be in no position to do it justice or injustice; we'd be in no position to judge or assess it.

We use god and the devil as a way to understand why humans act a certain way and usually I believe that the devil is a cop out for the evils of man.

It's called a personification. A metaphor. A graphic depiction of some human trait for the purpose of myth-making and moral instruction. In the precursors of modern organized religions, those personification were often imagined in the form of animals (such as the serpent in the Eden story), or not-quite-human creatures, such as the goblins, trolls and krampuses.

Many people who do terrible things believe that they are the son of the devil, A demon, or corrupted by dark forces where mental illness can explain all of these things.

I think that's rather widely known.

Humans don't need a force to corrupt us.

What is corruption? From what state of wholesomeness have we deteriorated? Was that prior state of wholesomeness a property of the entire species at one time - and if so, when? Or is it the default state of all humans at birth? Or was it the ground state of some pre-human ancestor?

People hate God or whatever created us

Do they? Which people hate which god?

Without suffering we would be bored and would inevitably create it.

I'm willing to give non-suffering a shot.

I believe that's why people look back at their childhoods with such fondness, because children don't know the harshness of man until they are taught it and they don't get the burden until they reflect on it.

not all childhoods are so blessed.

It's the nature of being. Good times, bad times.

Profound!

I would love some opinions on my theory.

Can you state your theory succinctly - preferably in the form of a proposition?

[SneakySniper179]

My theory is that this has been created by something else that we can't fully understand. I and many others find that self evident but my main point is that there is not much control from a God or a devil. Things just happen and good and bad. We as humans seem to enjoy both. We would get bored with perfect perfection. There is no such a thing as a perfect world, if there was we would be bored and obsolete.

There would be no need for anything, especially philosophy because there would be nothing to dig into. We would know. With this we have to experience the evils of man. Though many evils are created there are evil people that are just born **** up. There are people out for war and blood.

They are out for suffering and negativity and they are as natural as the sunrise. If you find the good in everything, most things make sense. A world without conflict is a world not worth living. If all the evils of this world disapated all the good would too.

[Alias]

I wish you well.

[SneakySniper179]

I wish you well.

What do you mean by that? Are you being sarcastic?

[Alias]

I wish you well.

What do you mean by that? Are you being sarcastic?

It's not a difficult sentence to parse. I mean, there is nothing either constructive or negative to contribute.

[Steve3007]

We all know that the tone in which some words are said often makes it clear that they're not meant to be taken literally.

That's one of the problems with conversations in writing. Emoticons try to fill the gap, but often just don't cut it.

[SneakySniper179]

We all know that the tone in which some words are said often makes it clear that they're not meant to be taken literally.

That's one of the problems with conversations in writing. Emoticons try to fill the gap, but often just don't cut it.

It seemed like a sardonic response but I don't believe he meant it like that.

[Alias]

It doesn't have any snide undertone at all.
I just didn't see any point in explaining why I believe that there is nothing I can contribute to the further development of your philosophy at this time, and hope that you continue to develop it on your own.

[Steve3007]

I guess we either all need to agree that all written words should be taken at face value and never assumed to be ironic/sarcastic or there should be an "I'm being sarcastic" emoticon. Trouble is, people might use that emoticon sarcastically. But then I guess they just put another one next to it...

OK, sorry, I've said too much. I'll let you get on.

[Alias]

I have read many books, devoid of illustrations or emoticons, in which I had no problem identifying a tone - whether of satire, drama or factual narration. I suppose it's partly a matter of context and what one expects.

[NickGaspar]

-I believe that religion is a big sense of our being and I believe that you are not understanding my points properly. Sure we need an environment but that can be a natural environment. Everything needs an environment. A world without one would be too abstract and non existent.

-Humans will do what they do in the nature of there personally type caused by the chemistry in there brain regardless of life experiences. Even some people with good lives steal, murder, rape and commit other heinous crimes.

-Many people don't have complete contempt for a God but they do blame him for there problems and get angry at him for our suffering because he is all loving. A good causation of this would be natural death and mortality.

-To answer your final question I believe it's inherent in human nature to believe in a higher power because it's seen in everywhere humans are unless supressed by the government and there surroundings. A good portion of people believe in something bigger than us and create their own ideals of the creator based on the way their society is structured.

First of all you said:"-I believe that religion is a big sense of our being". I don't understand what that means. What does it mean for something to be " a big sense of our being"??? I mean there are Science fans and Skeptics, Buddhists and Raelians, Amazonian tribes (Piraha people) that either don't share religious beliefs or don't even have a concept of "god" in there culture! So I will need a clarification on that claim.

-"I believe that you are not understanding my points properly."
-Sure, that is really easy problem to solve. You can post clarifications and we can compare your previous statements with your new and see whether the terms you use in both cases are based on the same common usages, similar or they are ambiguous. It would also help if you point out which of my comments are off the point you were trying to make.

Now you agreed with me by saying. "Sure we need an environment but that can be a natural environment. Everything needs an environment. "
Correct, but I brought the concept of "environment" in our discussion as an argument against your blind generalization about human nature(being inherently evil). You specifically stated:"Humans don't need a force to corrupt us. Humans are an evil that can create another evil and keep perpetuating the cycle over and over until the end of time."
So I pointed out that biology and psychology teach us that humans don't have specific nature in their behavior but our nature is an evolutionary product based on the influences of our environment. So Human nature can have MANY expressions.....not just being evil.
I.e. We have tribes(bushmen) not having a single violent crime ever recorded in their long history. We have North atheist countries with really low percentages of violence. We see violent crimes fluctuating in relation to economic crises and states. So how can you objectively support your claim about our nature?

-"-Humans will do what they do in the nature of there personally type caused by the chemistry in there brain regardless of life experiences. Even some people with good lives steal, murder, rape and commit other heinous crimes. "
-And the other way around! So your generalization that humans are an evil is unfounded...don't you think? Humans are the product of their current environment and their biology(inputs of past environments and biological lottary ) predisposes their behavior in relation to current conditions.

-"-Many people don't have complete contempt for a God but they do blame him for there problems and get angry at him for our suffering because he is all loving.
-Yes people are irrational and see teleology and agency behind their or others misfortune. How this behavior can justify an irrational belief in the supernatural?

-"A good causation of this would be natural death and mortality. "
-also injustice, misfortune, unnecessary pain in nature, destruction, misery. What is exactly your point and how this fallacious reasoning of some (believing in a god or accusing a god) can ever be a rational approach to the general human condition?

-"-To answer your final question I believe it's inherent in human nature to believe in a higher power because it's seen in everywhere humans are unless supressed by the government and there surroundings."
- And how is this answer relevant to my question? Human are superstitious pattern seeking animals, we agree on that. What makes talking about the truth of god's assumption or religion part of philosophy when this is a purely anthropological phenomenon and located to that specific scientific field of study.

-"A good portion of people believe in something bigger than us and create their own ideals of the creator based on the way their society is structured."
-That is a great ad populum observation.Again why do you think that a god exists and has a complex nature like we do and why philosophy could ever produce any meaningful answers?

[Nitai]

-"A good portion of people believe in something bigger than us and create their own ideals of the creator based on the way their society is structured."
-That is a great ad populum observation.Again why do you think that a god exists and has a complex nature like we do and why philosophy could ever produce any meaningful answers?

There is a source of this universe and this source contain everything in it because out of the source there is nothing so it is the source that gave all the ingredients known and the impulsion, this source then must be complete.
The Complete Whole must contain everything both within and beyond our experience; otherwise He cannot be complete.


I need to repeat that;
Philosophy is good but it is only speculation without experiences, we can speculate forever and most "philosopher" do it actually, it is a modern idea to think that philosophy is only an idea of dry mental speculation, that is another sense gratification on the intellectual level but real philosophy is an ardent search (meaning we are eager to find not to argue) for the truth not an academical pursue.
I just find it is important to remember this because in our modern life we tend to forget it.
I give more credit to sincerity then scolarship in this search.

pardon my intrusion, Hopefully I helped.