Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Belindi]

What do you think of those "primitive" humans who see gods and all manner of spirits residing in the rocks and streams and trees of the forest

These have individual personalities , tree by tree and stream by stream. They lack symbolic language and what they do is what they are. It's bad to destroy or harm them but good to cherish and respect them.
I've populated my garden with trees as much as possible.

[GaryLouisSmith]

You dodged the question.

Actually, I answered it, but not in the black & white way that would allow you to put me in one of those little boxes you reserve for those who think unlike you. Like us, the ancients couldn't help noticing what was happening around them. Then they aimed to pass on their findings to the next generations.

So, no, superstitious ancients were not idiots, just accessing different bodies of knowledge. Having said that, their doctors were even worse than ours today and I'm not sure I'd fancy undergoing an exorcism to cure me of bacterial illness.

I wasn't talking about the ancients, but about 'primitive' people. I put that word is quotes. Most of the people alive today are 'primitive', not only in the third world, but also in the first world. That is to say they believe in those gods and spirits that roam, not only the woods, but also the back alleys of cities and the white walls of wall street. For the most part human beings are religious of one form or another. They dream wild dreams. And the have vicious arguments about it all. It is that sectarian, argumentative nature of humankind that is their true nature, the spiritual in them. Other animals are territorial only. Humans are that, but we love dialectics. We argue. My dislike of so many naturalists is that they will not argue, but feign harmonious friendship with all creatures. Even other humans. But when it comes to other humans it is fake. I like to see human beings disagree and call out other humans. Today the 'scientific' argue with the 'primitive' and that is ok. I just hate it when the 'scientific' treat the 'primitive' like children.

[GaryLouisSmith]

I'm not sure I'd fancy undergoing an exorcism to cure me of bacterial illness.

There were plenty of anti-bacterial herbs. The liklihood that you would have gotten an exorcism for a bacterial illness seems rather low to me. And it seemed like he was talking about animists/pantheists...

What do you think of those "primitive" humans who see gods and all manner of spirits residing in the rocks and streams and trees of the forest

not, say, ancient Christians.

Yes, shamans do try to cure bacterial illness. Actually, the people I know who use shamans also go to medical doctors and ayurvedic herbalists. They try everything. Why not? You probably would also.

We are all both primitive and scientific. And we argue with others and with ourselves about everything. Which method works better is almost irrelevant. The important thing is that we got a chance to argue about it and that always makes us feel better.

[GaryLouisSmith]

GartLouisSmith, regarding catastrophic water scarcity I recommend this discussion:

Being vegan for ethical reasons.

I hope you don't actually believe that a vegan's food is grown without water. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/27/indi ... index.html

[Felix]

GaryLouisSmith: You should send some of your dowsing friends here to the sub-continent because down in India people are rapidly running out of water for drinking and for livestock and for irrigation.

You said they had technology to communicate with the spirits, pretty useless if it can't provide basic needs such as food and water.

[Belindi]

A kilogram of meat (or leather shoes) costs a lot more water than a kilogram of rice.

Food animals are often reared and fattened with prophylactic antibiotics resulting in antibiotic resistance among bacteria. Shamans might be able to improve natural non-specific immunity.

[GaryLouisSmith]

A kilogram of meat (or leather shoes) costs a lot more water than a kilogram of rice.

Food animals are often reared and fattened with prophylactic antibiotics resulting in antibiotic resistance among bacteria. Shamans might be able to improve natural non-specific immunity.

The people I know here in Nepal (and I'm sure much of India is the same) who have animals, don't use antibiotics. They have only two or three oxen, some chickens and a few goats. I really don't know how much water they need. I do know that diabetes is a big problem here because people eat too much rice trying to get nutrition.

[GaryLouisSmith]

GaryLouisSmith: You should send some of your dowsing friends here to the sub-continent because down in India people are rapidly running out of water for drinking and for livestock and for irrigation.

You said they had technology to communicate with the spirits, pretty useless if it can't provide basic needs such as food and water.

Human beings are much more than "basic needs such as food and water".

[Felix]

Human beings are much more than "basic needs such as food and water".

Without those necessities, how much more can they be? A Native American shaman who can not help his tribe find game or water will soon be an ex-shaman. And the founders of the Findhorn community knew that without food and water, they could have no community, whereupon one of them found a means to communicate with the nature devas to achieve that goal. It apparently produced consistent results and therefore deserves to be called a "technology."

[GaryLouisSmith]

Human beings are much more than "basic needs such as food and water".

Without those necessities, how much more can they be?

How much more can they be? For one thing for the boys I know having the right hair style and fashion clothes is very important, but most important is a smart phone so they can do Facebook and watch football games

[Sy Borg]

I'm not sure I'd fancy undergoing an exorcism to cure me of bacterial illness.

There were plenty of anti-bacterial herbs. The liklihood that you would have gotten an exorcism for a bacterial illness seems rather low to me. And it seemed like he was talking about animists/pantheists...

No.

Every exorcism was performed by pretty well every religion and each was performed in response to either a viral or bacterial illness or a psychological disorder. There have been numerous medical mistakes throughout history, and they continue to be made today.

Leeches anyone?

[Felix]

How much more can they be? For one thing for the boys I know having the right hair style and fashion clothes is very important, but most important is a smart phone so they can do Facebook and watch football games.

And they don't require food or water to pursue those activities? Must be spirit boys.

[Felix]

Every exorcism was performed by pretty well every religion and each was performed in response to either a viral or bacterial illness or a psychological disorder.

Hey, given the choice, I'd take that over the psychiatric version of it any time - a.k.a., electroshock therapy.

[Sy Borg]

Every exorcism was performed by pretty well every religion and each was performed in response to either a viral or bacterial illness or a psychological disorder.

Hey, given the choice, I'd take that over the psychiatric version of it any time - a.k.a., electroshock therapy.

Or lobotomies or trepanation

At least those practices only lasted for decades, and there were doctors speaking out about those practices at the time. Exorcisms have been conducted for thousands of years.

[GaryLouisSmith]

How much more can they be? For one thing for the boys I know having the right hair style and fashion clothes is very important, but most important is a smart phone so they can do Facebook and watch football games.

And they don't require food or water to pursue those activities? Must be spirit boys.

You think like an old person.