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Chili wrote: ↑July 1st, 2019, 11:37 pmThe observer can correlate brain activity with certain patterns of behavior that are generally associated with human consciousness, but this still skirts the issue of what consciousness is and whether it is actually present.The presence of the neural correlates of consciousness entails the presence of consciousness.
Chili wrote: ↑July 1st, 2019, 11:37 pmDefining consciousness in terms of behaviors is "cheating", and does not fix the normal human use of the word to describe subjectivity per se.Who equates consciousness with behavior?
Felix wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 1:56 am The one question that Darwinian theory does not answer is why evolution should occur at all, why life should be progressive. The pressure of natural selection in no way accounts for this odd anomaly, it runs counter to Nature's entropic inclinations. There is apparently some sort of hidden will in life that prods it onward despite all material resistance. You may propose that life is an accident, but even so, why would an accident start repeating itself?No, there is no "sort of hidden will in life that prods it onward despite all material resistance," and it is not the case that evolution "runs counter to Nature's entropic inclinations." These anti-evolutionist myths have been refuted completely!
Consul wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 2:11 am The presence of the neural correlates of consciousness entails the presence of consciousness.How am I to use science to determine whether my neighbor is actually conscious (having a subjective experience) vs just behaving (doing things in accord with genetic programming ) ?
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Who equates consciousness with behavior?
Pantagruel wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 6:12 pm If you really want to dig into the driving forces behind evolution I'd suggest the book "Conceptual Issues in Evolutionary Biology".One can go on and on, write books, recommend books, ad infinitum, but there is no scientific experiment to detect consciousness, only behaviors.
Chili wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 7:16 pmOne can go on and on, write books, recommend books, ad infinitum, but there is no scientific experiment to detect consciousness, only behaviors.Neuroscientists can directly detect the neural correlates of consciousness and thereby indirectly detect consciousness; since if the former are present, the latter is present too.
Consul wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 7:38 pmOf course Consul you are right. However what Chili is saying is that the nature of consciousness itself is not detected only its effects.Chili wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2019, 7:16 pmOne can go on and on, write books, recommend books, ad infinitum, but there is no scientific experiment to detect consciousness, only behaviors.Neuroscientists can directly detect the neural correlates of consciousness and thereby indirectly detect consciousness; since if the former are present, the latter is present too.
BigBango wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2019, 3:52 am Consciousness is both constructed in our neurology and rooted in the consciousness of the galactic civilizations that preceded the BB.As I understand the Big Bang (and I'm not sure that I or anyone else completely does understand it), the statement that something 'preceded' it is somewhat nonesensical. So this is akin to saying something like 'those nations whose territories lie south of the South Pole'?
Chili wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2019, 11:37 am No science can verify that an individual is conscious - only that they behave in a way which *seems* conscious to observers (see the Turing test). ThusConsciousness can be directly detected by inner perception/observation (introspection), and it can be indirectly detected by outer perception/observation (extrospection). And the introspective, first-person data can be correlated with the extrospective, third-person data.
if consciousness cannot be detected, it cannot be correlated with anything, thus there is no "science of consciousness."
Consul wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2019, 1:37 pmConsciousness can be directly detected by inner perception/observation (introspection), and it can be indirectly detected by outer perception/observation (extrospection). And the introspective, first-person data can be correlated with the extrospective, third-person data.If reductive physicalism about consciousness is true, then consciousness can be directly detected from the third-person perspective too!
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