Consul wrote: ↑June 17th, 2019, 2:12 pmI also think that the argument can be made that the kind of materialism you are trapped it could be classified as a learned mental disorder. Whenever qualia comes up, you automatically dismiss it as something that doesn't exist, and then start to talk about something else and call that something else qualia.Atla wrote: ↑June 16th, 2019, 3:34 pm And there is zero evidence for that, nothing.If "that" refers to brain-independent nonanimal consciousness, you're right.
Atla wrote: ↑June 16th, 2019, 3:34 pmDoesn't even make sense in principle that a particular arrangement of physical stuff should give rise to qualia, while other arrangements shouldn't.Yes, it does make sense. What doesn't make sense is panpsychism, according to which all nonbiological physical systems, including molecules and atoms, can generate qualia.
Atla wrote: ↑June 16th, 2019, 3:34 pmSo you say:???
And then you do the opposite and stick to your antiscientific belief, like Sculptor.
You people stuck in a late 19th century worldview need to realize that materialism was already refuted by science long ago (along with idealism).
The materialistic worldview is neither antiscientific nor scientifically refuted—on the contrary!
In short you deny that you have experiences, but you are either unaware of this or are unwilling to admit it. It's impossible to have a conversation with someone like that.