Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Haicoway]

I am the most open person I know. There’s nothing I won’t say or acknowledge about myself, except anything that could get me locked up. I am an asshole, and I have no problem with the world knowing it.

I wonder about so many other people, though, those people who say stuff like: "I don’t discuss religion and politics." People who hide out, say almost nothing of substance, and hide what they think in order to look good, they think, or not to sound stupid – or whatever.

My view is, like Shakespeare said, that we have but an hour upon the stage, a mere flicker of time, between two eternities of potential nothingness. Why would anybody, then, hide out behind a stage prop for that time, as though he or she weren’t alive?

I am thinking it is because even if they profess to be atheists, in their unconscious minds they believe this isn’t it, that there is a more important time to come which they must prepare for by not doing or saying anything that might send them to hell. Or they just don't bother much with now because they believe they will have an eternity of more important life to come.

[Jklint]

It's not an unconscious belief. It is a wishful thinking belief. The unconscious doesn't have or contain any beliefs.

[Eduk]

Haicoway. What interesting things are you doing and what great efforts have you made?
Or are you saying you believe in an afterlife?

[Burning ghost]

It's not an unconscious belief. It is a wishful thinking belief. The unconscious doesn't have or contain any beliefs.

Do a quick google search for “unconscious belief” before you’re so quick to dismiss. On the surface it sounds silly, but there is a history of this term being used before.

In short, think of it as meaning “unconscious motivations,” meaning that you belief you act a certain way for a certain reason yet really some previously unseen motive arises and you see that you were fooling yourself at the time.

All that said it is not apparent exactly what the OP means (at least not to me.)

[Haicoway]

Haicoway. What interesting things are you doing and what great efforts have you made?
Or are you saying you believe in an afterlife?

I asked myself the same question when it occured to me that what I had said sounded, or was, inflated and smug. Nothing, except being open, which has benefited me in causing many women to adore me, as stupid as that sounds. They all told me that other men they knew were not as open and thus less pleasurable to be with. I think women as a rule are more open than men, and thus feel lonely in the presence of most men.

[Eduk]

lol, I hope you asked these adoring women to peel your grapes as they bathed you in milk and honey.

[Haicoway]

lol, I hope you asked these adoring women to peel your grapes as they bathed you in milk and honey.

Honestly, they do. When I was wintering in Florida earlier this year, one I met there warned me if we were intimate that she might squirt milk on me as she was still lactating from a recent birth. I said I would love it, and she did. Another woman, who is not a girlfriend, but just friend, is a bee keeper and lavishes me with honey. I don't need grapes peeled, but I'm sure if I asked my girlfriends to do it, they would.

[Big Boss]

I don't think we have an unconscious belief in the afterlife, more like a conscious or possibly unconscious desire as a symptom of being animals who are aware of the concept of death.

[LuckyR]

I am the most open person I know. There’s nothing I won’t say or acknowledge about myself, except anything that could get me locked up. I am an asshole, and I have no problem with the world knowing it.

I wonder about so many other people, though, those people who say stuff like: "I don’t discuss religion and politics." People who hide out, say almost nothing of substance, and hide what they think in order to look good, they think, or not to sound stupid – or whatever.

My view is, like Shakespeare said, that we have but an hour upon the stage, a mere flicker of time, between two eternities of potential nothingness. Why would anybody, then, hide out behind a stage prop for that time, as though he or she weren’t alive?

I am thinking it is because even if they profess to be atheists, in their unconscious minds they believe this isn’t it, that there is a more important time to come which they must prepare for by not doing or saying anything that might send them to hell. Or they just don't bother much with now because they believe they will have an eternity of more important life to come.

I don't disagree with you on the narrow topic of picking up women, but in the broader context there are significant reasons not to seek out religion and politics as topics in common conversation.

[Haicoway]

Is that why you didn't venture what those reasons might be, so there couldn't be any discussion about them here?

[Present awareness]

Every one of us has experienced the transition from one world to the next, on the day of our birth. We were all there, although that memory may be clouded or forgotten completely. The day before our birth we were floating in fluid and in relative darkness with only muffled sounds from the world beyond the womb. Then, suddenly on the day of our birth there is bright light, harsh and sharp sounds, the feeling of air in the lungs and fabric on the skin, smells, touches and tastes, a completely different world then the one we were in, just one day earlier. Perhaps this memory, which for most, is an unconscious one, is the reason we have the feeling there may be another world into which we will transition? After all, it happens to us all once before!

[LuckyR]

Is that why you didn't venture what those reasons might be, so there couldn't be any discussion about them here?

No, because for most they are self-evident. However I have no problem listing a few to help out.

Since the purpose of conversation for many is more about relationship building than the topics being discussed, that is developing areas of commonality is considered relationship building. Of course once a relationship has been established, wider and more controversial topics become more commonly discussion topics, since at that point the bond is taken for granted.

[Haicoway]

I know. Relationship building is about being nice and liked. And if social relationships are what people want, then I am happy for them. And that’s the answer to the question I was asking. That’s why people hide many of their feelings and opinions; which, I for the sake of my own definition I am calling the same thing as being who the people really are. They don personas, masks, which is what I referred to as hiding behind stage props.

I know that people are hiding because I took the Werner Erhard est Training at which about 300 people acted like everybody else, until the final day when they started opening up about things they had always hidden for fear of not being accepted and liked. At the end they felt it was best to be who they were for the sake of their own authenticity. That’s how I came to my opinions about hiding out which I am expressing here. I am not saying I am right. I am just being me.

[ktz]

Well, I think maybe you can consider some other practical possibilities for that sort of behavior as well. Perhaps they believe something which is not easily justified, but they have their own personal reasons for doing so. And because they are secure in their beliefs and don't need the validation of others, they are comfortable saying that they don't discuss religion and politics. Or maybe they simply want to avoid the potential stress of engaging with someone unfriendly to their beliefs.

[Alias]

I wonder about so many other people, though, those people who say stuff like: "I don’t discuss religion and politics." People who hide out, say almost nothing of substance, and hide what they think in order to look good, they think, or not to sound stupid – or whatever.

It's mostly a lot of the "whatever". They don't want their noses punched. They don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be considered assholes by people they have to spend time with. They don't want to start a family feud at Thanksgiving dinner. They don't dominate the conversation with their own views because they're interested in other people. They're not ready to declare an opinion that they haven't had time to think through. They respect other people's sensibilities.
I know one "open" person who says exactly what she thinks in the moment, nicknamed Queecksdraw. She's neither stupid nor mean, just a rather forceful personality, who often comes across as an asshole. We tolerate her and smile ruefully when she comes out with a half-baked idea or nasty retort, but we sure don't want to be her.
It's nothing to do with afterlives. Nor is it necessarily "hiding" to choose one's confidantes, behave appropriately to the current venue, exercise adult judgment and not blurt everything to everyone all the time.