- October 2nd, 2018, 2:45 pm
#320843
3uGH7D4MLj:
What is the Hellenic parable? The Greeks were not alone in believing the gods are in control. What is clear in this story is that Job is not in control.
One more point on the problem of control and intervention. God creates Leviathan but what Leviathan does is not controlled by God. In other words, all that happens should not be taken as the work of God. God creates the lion, a beast of prey, but what the lion does she does because she is a beast of prey not because God controls her.
Job had heard what others had said about God, but they were things heard not things known to him:
Job gives an inheritance to his daughters. (42:15)
An inheritance is a hedge. Although they were the most beautiful in the land, Job deemed this insufficient. They would not have to rely on what they were given by God, which could be both a blessing and a curse, but, contrary to custom, were given wealth and power to hedge against evil. But all of this could be wiped away in a moment.
Well ok if you want a modern anodyne lesson from the story, or a sunday-school homily, but the story of Job is a full bore Hellenic parable with the Gods in complete control of the lives of humans.Perhaps you might provide a substantive response instead of a misguided broadside attack. You seem to have a peculiar notion of what anodyne means and what is taught in Sunday school. The question of why all this happened to Job is central, but no satisfactory answer is provided. Job was blameless. The closest we get is that it is beyond human understanding. We are powerless against forces much greater than us. Of the first four calaminites two were of human origin - the Sabeans and the Chaldeans, and the other two were natural events - lightening (fire of God from heaven) and wind. In chapter 2 Job’s suffering was caused by bodily ailments. All of these are things that may inflict any of us. What is the modern anodyne lesson in this? Which Sunday-school homily teaches such a thing?
What is the Hellenic parable? The Greeks were not alone in believing the gods are in control. What is clear in this story is that Job is not in control.
Was God protecting Job? Maybe, maybe not, the disinterested observer may say yes, probably, the way the story is laid out. Doesn't matter.Perhaps it doesn’t matter to you, but hasatan raises the question. It matters to him. It matters to the story.
The point may be that God does not cause humanity blessing or adversity, but how does the story put that across?Job certainly believes that God does:
Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10)As do his siblings and others:
Then there came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they ate bread with him in his house; they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him ... (42:11)
The Accuser" a God of some sort …The Accuser’s status is ambiguous. We are told that he presented himself along with the sons of God, but we are not told whether he was one of the sons or just was present with them. In any case, his powers are secondary to that of God’s. God could have prevented 'hasatan' from afflicting Job but does not. We are not given a reason why he does not intervene on Job’s behalf. The assumption that is was in order to win a bet explains nothing, it only makes it seem all the more capricious.
... afterwards He rewards Job with seven times the wealth he had in the first place (if I'm remembering right). Pretty clear divine intervention.The question is not whether God intervenes but why he didn’t intervene, why he allowed a blameless man to suffer. The only answer we are given is that we cannot understand the will of God.
One more point on the problem of control and intervention. God creates Leviathan but what Leviathan does is not controlled by God. In other words, all that happens should not be taken as the work of God. God creates the lion, a beast of prey, but what the lion does she does because she is a beast of prey not because God controls her.
I can only come back to questions about, and fascination with, the culture that canonized these wild stories.It is a mythological telling of something that each of us should be able to relate to - questions of justice, fairness, evil, and responsibility. We see immediately that it is put beyond the bounds of the human, but rather than provide answers it points to the limits of the questioner and, as the story unfolds, raises problems with our ability to be at home in a world that can be hostile to us. These “wild stories” are not simply about the incomprehensible actions of gods but the wildness of an inhospitable world. We, each of us, seek to build a hedge. Some may believe they are safe, but Job comes to know that he is not.
Job had heard what others had said about God, but they were things heard not things known to him:
I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you (42:5)What Job comes to know is the manifestation of God’s power, but he comes to see that this power is not for man’s benefit.
Job gives an inheritance to his daughters. (42:15)
An inheritance is a hedge. Although they were the most beautiful in the land, Job deemed this insufficient. They would not have to rely on what they were given by God, which could be both a blessing and a curse, but, contrary to custom, were given wealth and power to hedge against evil. But all of this could be wiped away in a moment.
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