ChaoticMindSays wrote:
Tell me what being religious with no belief in God actually means.
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
I would agree with you that being religious with no belief in God is oxymoronic, but have you considered this as a possible definition?
7. the unyielding commitment to and pursuit of Goodness, Truth and Beauty.
I would add that a "
pre-judgment" of anything is not done in pursuit of truth, but for the sake of some kind of personal convenience or bias.
To say, as you do, that "...all religion promotes, in the long run, is ignorance...." is in itself a promotion of ignorance and quite contrary to your implied claim that your own intent is to promote peace and enlightenment.
Merely to pass judgment on a position that you have had little to do with or thought about since you were 10 years old is not enlightened critique since what you are critiquing is a 10 year old's understanding of the subject. Perhaps the reason you think it illogical is that your concept of God is one formed in a 10 year old's mind. Thousands great thinkers and intelligent human beings have been convinced of God's existence for many very logical reasons over the history of mankind. Have you considered all these individuals' thoughts and reasonings before arriving at a conclusion that belief is "illogical" and promotes ignorance?
To base critique on what the "average" Joe provides as reasons for belief in a culture that is more concerned with its daily bread than ultimate meaning does not add any evidence that religious belief is ignorant. It seems to me that you are the one promoting ignorance in place of a real authentic search for truth when you arrive at judgments about the existence of God using such flimsy thinking.
Ask the average Joe on the street about theories of science or ethics and they will be just as naive about their thinking. Does that prove science promotes ignorance because people don't know much about theories of science either?
Just because you and your friends have arrived at some consensus on the subject does not mean anything. What is the quality of thought among this circle of friends? A group of thieves can very quickly arrive at the belief that stealing is allowable and just, but does that mean it is? And very likely if an outsider tried to argue a stronger concept of justice with a group of thieves, that individual would quickly chicken out, back down and perhaps even admit to faulty thinking rather than being assailed by a band of thugs.
I would like to counter your claim that
As for now I look at the idea of God as a sort of comfort blanket. When something big and scary that you can't understand is hovering over you you throw it over your head and it's gone. You don't have to think about it anymore. Religion is just a way of coping with a big scary universe
with the observation that the universe perhaps is big and scary, but an all-powerful, all-knowing, infinite and eternal Being is
bigger and scarier than the universe, so perhaps the reason atheists are atheists is because they need a big comfort blanket to throw over their heads to convince themselves that they are in control and have all the answers, because if God exists certainly He is infinitely more in control of everything than any human being.
Perhaps you and your friends are "control freaks" who are very much frightened of the possibility that right beside you and, in fact, right inside you exists an infinitely powerful Being who has complete control and knowledge of everything you are and do including every molecule of matter in the universe, every cell in your body and every thought in your head.
It seems to me that using God as a security blanket defies logic because certainly an all-powerful Being would allow Himself to be less controlled than matter that follows a predictable pattern of order and outcome. An all-powerful being with a will "of His own" would not be much of a security blanket, especially when that Being has as a prime destiny for human beings to turn us into "fully alive," perfect beings who function at full capacity, including having full use of the faculty of reason to acquire truth - especially moral truth.
It has
not been my experience that human beings strive for perfection, we tend to strive for mediocrity and have "feet of clay" whenever we are asked to live "beyond ourselves." Yet if God is "Love," then He makes an absolute demand on us to love unconditionally. How's it going with that?
Have you or any of your friends given up all possessions and lived among the poorest of the poor in Kolkata providing care and psychological support for the dying, dispossessed and poor? The simple truth is that there are thousands of "believers" in God who have been moved to do so by God. How is this belief not a promotion of "peace." Facing the truth of inequality of material goods is one that God leads us to. How is
that promoting ignorance?
Perhaps conventional religion is in some ways a kind of, as Kierkegaard claimed, antidote or vaccine against the real demands of God. God is too scary, so let us find security in numbers to "hide" from Him by placating him. However, that is not the complete truth either, because religion also leads many to do superhuman deeds in the face of enormous obstacles.
It could be that your claim that religion promotes ignorance is merely a psychological defensive mechanism to convince yourself that you know everything you need to know and rationalize away any demands contrary to that belief. Obviously you and your friends cannot find security in conventional religion so you must be seeking it elsewhere - conventional atheism perhaps?
It is easier to criticize others than to critique ourselves, then again Jesus said something about that, too. Take the plank out of your own eye before trying to take a sliver out of your neighbour's.
I apologize for being so blatant here, but I find most criticism of religion to be shallow and for the most part, biased.
It has been my experience with God that He continually "pushes the envelope" and will not allow anyone to rest until we meet and achieve His challenges. If anything, we are the ones who would rather promote ignorance because "I didn't know that!" is a convenient excuse for inaction and amoral behaviour.
I might even suggest that having a "chaotic mind" is a convenient excuse for not thinking straight because thinking straight would mean taking specific action. Remember expletives are not allowed in this forum.
I await your thoughtful reply.
,not the "Hidden ULTIMATE ABSOLUTE Essence" of the God Almighty!
Al Pacino(a little funny)
- By Yung Jun
- By Pattern-chaser