Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Ormond]

What is the method of attaining X and what are the common methods.

A place to start might be, forget about obtaining X.

Here's why. The process we are discussing isn't about accumulating, but discarding.

It's like when we've sold our house and have to remove all our stuff so the house will be empty for the next tenant. Seen this way, we don't want to be chasing enlightenment, self realization, nirvana or "X" etc. All this stuff is just more crap we'll have to drag out of the house in to the moving van. If we don't buy this heavy mental furniture in the first place, then we won't have to move it.

Say we're meditating. A thought arises that we need to clean the garage. Meditation is about letting that thought go, right? Ok, and so then we think, "My boss is an ass." Ok, we'll let this thought go too. And then another thought arises, "I want to be enlightened." This is no different than the thought about our boss, or garage cleaning, or anything else, the job is to let it go.

So, method #1, in whatever time you have available, practice forgetting about you and what you are going to attain. All that greedy grabby mental noise, just let it go for a bit.

[Burning ghost]

How did you have an awakening? Did you have a meditation schedule? Did you start with 20 mins of meditation? What method of meditation was it you used? Did you use different kinds of meditation? Did you find one best to fit you or use all?

[Ormond]

Ah, so I see my last post was highly persuasive.

How did you have an awakening?

I didn't. That's all a bunch of silly ego fueled becoming trip rubbish, except maybe for a tiny number of rare end of bell curve people who, if they exist at all, are so few in number as to be irrelevant to the rest of us.

If you a reader should discard the glamorous becoming trip fantasy called enlightenment, here's what they're left with.

When you're physically hungry, what do you do? You eat something. Wow, that was complicated!

You're sensible about it, and don't expect to find some magic food which will forever end your hunger. Instead, you are realistic and practical and accept the reality that managing your physical hunger on a regular basis is one of the price tags of living.

Thought, like digestion, is just another mechanical operation of the human body. This is good news, because it reduces a supposedly complex mysterious esoteric issue for "experts" down to a simple straightforward management operation available to just about anyone. When thinking starts driving us batty, take a break from thinking. Duh!

Did you have a meditation schedule? Did you start with 20 mins of meditation? What method of meditation was it you used? Did you use different kinds of meditation? Did you find one best to fit you or use all?

Well, for me, I spend TONS of time in the north Florida woods. Seriously, nature is a good place to look for peace, imho. Your mileage may vary.

That's how I achieved the highly advanced ego slaying holy mystical state of enlightenment nirvana samadhi which solved every problem I ever had and left me in a permanent state of transcendent eternal bliss. Except for when I called for jury duty, which still seems to piss me off big time.

[Burning ghost]

Well, I am interested in the rare end of the bell curve people.

[Ormond]

Well, I am interested in the rare end of the bell curve people.

Fair enough, no crime in that. In that case, I would propose that this is their situation.

In every field there are rare end of the bell curve people with remarkable ability. I'm willing to agree it's likely the same in the field of psychology. Here's the problem though...

Jesus could teach us how to be better people, but he couldn't teach us how to be a Jesus. Mozart could teach us how to play piano and write music, but not how to be the next Mozart. Einstein could teach us about space/time, but not how to become an Einstein.

The end of the bell curve people didn't invent the rare specialized genius within their minds, it was handed to them by the genetic lottery, by chance, by God, in any case, something or somebody other than themselves. They don't own that genius, they didn't create it, thus they can't hand it over to you and me.

Thus, we may come to the following logic.

1) Do rare end of the bell curve people exist in the field of psychology? Probably.

2) Can they teach us how to be rare end of the bell curve people in the field of psychology? Not likely.

Thus, while such folks are indeed interesting, they are probably also largely irrelevant to the practical situation of the average person. The sooner we stop chasing the imaginary pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the sooner we are in the position to get serious about our human condition.

You may find that most of the people who address these topics in the realm of new age teachings or philosophy are only interested if these topics can somehow be made esoteric, complicated, glamorous etc. You see, without it being esoteric, complicated, glamorous etc, they can't play the role of expert, they can't build a following, they can't run a business.

[Kungwu111]

"I" did not find the X. It was the X who recognized itself when the conceptual "me" was out of the way...

[Burning ghost]

"I" did not find the X. It was the X who recognized itself when the conceptual "me" was out of the way...

That doesn't really help much. How did you get the conceptual "me" out of the way?

I am very interested in this.

[Ormond]

How did you get the conceptual "me" out of the way?

"Me" is made of thought. To the degree we lower the volume of thought, or turn thought off, "me" goes away, temporarily. This can be accomplished by patiently pursuing basic meditation techniques, a simple straightforward process. The esoteric complications arise if/when we try to make this lack of "me" a permanent state of affairs at some point in the future.

Please note the title of Tolle's most popular book, "The Power Of Now". The title alone is adequate instruction, if we actually read it. Please note how Tolle didn't name his book, "The Power Of Me Accomplishing Amazing Things Sometime In The Future!"

Note how you are actually feeding "me" by trying to achieve a permanent fundamental shift of human psychology, a goal that "me" loves because it is glorious and glamorous etc. "Me" says, I need to be bigger, better, more special. I need to be like that famous man up on the stage. If you want to get the conceptual "me" out of the way, all this future tripping will have to go.

When I was young there was a popular book called "Be Here Now". Three simple little words, that's all we need.

How to get the conceptual "me" out of the way?

Be.

Here.

Now.

[Kungwu111]

"I" did not find the X. It was the X who recognized itself when the conceptual "me" was out of the way...

That doesn't really help much. How did you get the conceptual "me" out of the way?

I am very interested in this.

There may be infinite ways and/or there may be no way...

...put attention on the awareness itself; contemplate what is the awareness; and reject ALL conceptual answers...

[Burning ghost]

I am asking the person who started this thread what technique they used and how or if they adjusted it in anyway.

There are literally many different meditation techniques.

[Ormond]

...put attention on the awareness itself; contemplate what is the awareness; and reject ALL conceptual answers...

Should we reject the conceptual answers in your opening post, Tolle's books, and the speeches of all the other new age gurus too? Answer please. Yes? No? Other?

Mysticism might be described as the experience of putting attention on awareness and reality, as you suggest above. At the moment we try to explain that experience (ie. "contemplate what is the awareness") and draw conclusions from it etc, mysticism begins to degrade in to religion. When we shift from silence to explanations we're declaring by our actions that....

....the silence isn't enough.

Is that actually true? Is it?

What if we were serious, and patiently learned the title of Tolle's book before rushing to read the pages within? For starters we might ask why Tolle named his book, The Power Of Now, and not The Power Of Contemplating What Is The Awareness?

Now. A single word with only three letters. Be simple and humble, start with that word, explore it, discover it, experience it, and you will find the rest of Tolle's writings to be unnecessary.

Ah, well, unless of course your real goal is to inflate your ego with some glamorous future tripping which you can then sell to other people to establish yourself as some kind of holy man in their eyes and yours. If that were the case, then yes, you'd better read the rest of the book so you can learn the new age guru lingo dance.

-- April 4th, 2016, 6:47 pm --

Ok then, so here's a peace offering.

Those who wish to explore the Tolle realm in peace without inconvenient disturbances from the peanut gallery can do so here:

http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth.info/

I know from experience that the current mods of this forum are unable to tolerate any effective challenge to Tolle sermons, and will remove such challengers from the discussion. Thus, it's a safe place to talk Tolle without encountering too much in the way of contrary views.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

What does this have to do with the book Irrationally Yours?

[Felix]

What does this have to do with the book Irrationally Yours?

Apparently nothing, but it's an interesting conversation so perhaps you could move it to the appropriate forum, thank you.

[Ormond]

Sorry for my contributions to the off topicness. I read the thread title and opening post, and thought that was the subject being addressed, not seeing the forum the thread was in. I typically access the forum through the new posts feature, not by scrolling through sections on the home page.

Scott, if you wish to discuss Irrationally Yours, why not go ahead and do so?