Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Xris]

As I said, when you can produce some novel evidence that gravity influences a vacuum, I will reply. GPS works simply because mass influences gravity.It ain't got nothing to do with empty space curving, pal. So what you got friend that ain't already contegiously presented because all you have produced so far is abusive rhetoric.

[Calrid]

As I said, when you can produce some novel evidence that gravity influences a vacuum, I will reply. GPS works simply because mass influences gravity.It ain't got nothing to do with empty space curving, pal. So what you got friend that ain't already contegiously presented because all you have produced so far is abusive rhetoric.

I already have Christ you are not even trying.

There's no such thing as a perfect vaccuum, hence there is nowhere gravity isn't affecting space, hence the field energy is never 0 hence there is tiny curvature of space at all scales.

wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

Try this.

And

/wiki/Vacuum_energy

And this.

/wiki/Casimir_effect

You are just plain wrong give it up.

Field theory works your half baked nonsensical diatribes do not.

There are points in space where 2 gravitational fields cancel each other out although energy is obviously non 0, they are a Laplacian point in space where all concerns are effectively 0, even their a sea of vacuum energy remains, so that there is no point anywhere in the universe that is not being bent by gravity.

Energy = mass x speed of light^2

Do you have any idea what that means?

Newtonian laws of gravity, at the limit reaches 0.

General Relativity at the limit assymptotically approaches zero which is maths gibberish for approaches but never reaches, where there is energy there is mass equivalence and where their is mass equivalence there is non zero curvature. We know this because every single experiment ever done shows it to be true. Frankly I suspect if Einstein had of been anything but a German Jew he would of got several Nobel prizes, because general relativity along with his theories on Brownian motion and quanta where something quite substantial.

The first proof of time and space dilation came from the solar eclipse where gravitational mass of the sun bends light to create the effect we see around the sun. It also means you can use our sun as a gravitational lens. We know this works because we have done it.

[Xris]

Your links ain't working.So now your attempting to prove space is filled with something to bend. What exactly is this stuff? Have you accepted that GPS works because of gravitational differences or are you still claiming the impossible? Up till now all you have achieved is to tell me what a genius you are.So what you got?

[Calrid]

Your links ain't working.So now your attempting to prove space is filled with something to bend. What exactly is this stuff? Have you accepted that GPS works because of gravitational differences or are you still claiming the impossible? Up till now all you have achieved is to tell me what a genius you are.So what you got?

You're not actually all there are you, you can't post wiki links but one assumes you can use google.

Been on the interweb long?

Compared to you I am the Buddha and Einstein all rolled into one frankly your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance on this subject, which means you should have no real platform from which to judge anything to do with physics.

Have you accepted that curvature in space/time is really a differential curvature of space due to energy it is simply convenient to call it a gradient it could also be an energy cline, or anything but sure as eggs is eggs only non Euclidean geometry explains space and time consistently to 9 decimal places.



GPS works because energy curves space time, if it didn't all our experiments wouldn't work.

Start by googling special relativity and if by some chance you can grasp that, finish with general relativity and then field theory which unifies gravitation and quantum mechanics although there are still particle problems with GR and QM.

[AB1OB]

Space is only space. Space is a measurement of relationships of energy. Only energy exists, space is just the relative positions of the energy. Therefore, you can't curve space .

A 2-dimensional diagram of space-time is purely a mental construct to help visualize the way energies interact (according to observations from our human perspective).

Space is not an aether. Atoms are not made from space. Atoms are made from quantum waves that expand through space.

Expansion, in particular, "differential expansion" is what makes our reality possible...

I won't go into the details right now but will try to give a brief explanation:

Differential expansion is the relativity of an expanding radius to its associated sphere.

This is why there is a constant speed of light, why we can "see", why we see cosmic expansion, what causes time, & much more.

If we start from what appears to us as the "big bang"...We start with zero space & maximum energy.

Logically, there is only one direction for this energy to exist. (everything is waves & waves must move to exist).

So we have maximum energy radiating away from the point of initiation. These expanding radials are "quantum waves"...Quantum means that they are recurrent at a minimum level. In other words, their smallest unit of energy is a fixed amount of energy information, the minimum differentiation of existence.

So picture a set of radials each increasing in a step/by/step quantum fashion. When space is negligible, each radial is "right next" to the next radial, when you put all these radials together, you get an image of an expanding sphere.

Each quantum level, on each radial, is adjacent to the quantum level of the neighboring radial creating an image of an expanding sphere with "onion-like" concentric layers.

Each concentric layer is a different distance from the singularity. This distance is "relative universal time".

As universal time passes, what is really happening is the quantum wave radials are moving away from the starting point. As they do, the "space" between the radials gets larger. This dilutes the energies and allows them to begin to recombine as lower energy densities evolve.

Remember that time is the movement of energy into expansion via a quantum step. At each quantum step, all the "minimum energy units" are going from one onion-like layer to the next...they are "re-created" at each step. But now we add relativity into the mix...

Relativity means that neighboring quantum units can exchange places when going from one level to the next. In other words, shifting of units between radials can occur at each quantum step.

OK. Back to the original topic...Now we can start to visualize things in their proper perspective. Let's take a large planet as an example. This planet is made of quantum waves joined together in space traveling through TIME . The more massive the planet is, the more of a lag it creates in this time travel. The onion-like layer becomes distended the same way that Einstein space-time diagrams indicate.

[Calrid]

Your post makes no sense whatsoever. It is possible it doesn't physically curve anything true. But the distinction is irrelevant. You can't just say it doesn't do this because I say so you have to show us an experiment which shows it.

ETA: I do agree though that space is not an ether as far as we know, but if it isn't it is impossible to prove given the maths and physics currently. Einstein himself was leary of tackling these questions as he had sort of destroyed luminiferous aether, but he knew there was no way to disprove other interpretations of ether.

He had to get help from others for the maths but primarily he did all the hard work, ironically maths wasn't Einstein's strongest suit, which is fine but he was somewhat guilty of plagiarism.

"The key to good science is to hide your sources."

Albert Einstein.

He wasn't even the first to induce light was equal to energy and hence to mass, that was Newton et al.

And of course Lorentz was never credited either for his contraction.

ETA2: and of course field theory throws up some real ether like equations that muddy the issue. Is there an ether we can not know atm, so we should if we are honest remain neutral or at least act as if it is irrelevant.

[Xris]

This is getting boring.You have not produced one novel example to prove that space is curved. You tell me it is not space that is curving but that space is filled with something you can't exactly tell me what it is. You give me links that don't work and if they did only confirm that no one knows. Virtual particles that pop in to existence but not long enough actually prove they exist. For someone who claims so much you really are failing dismally.

[Calrid]

This is getting boring.You have not produced one novel example to prove that space is curved. You tell me it is not space that is curving but that space is filled with something you can't exactly tell me what it is. You give me links that don't work and if they did only confirm that no one knows. Virtual particles that pop in to existence but not long enough actually prove they exist. For someone who claims so much you really are failing dismally.

You are trolling aren't you can't possibly of read all those links and come to the conclusion that space doesn't curve it's just not logically possible to prove it doesn't given all rational experiment.

There is no novel way to explain to someone who clearly doesn't understand the maths or the physics of time and space dilation, it's basically a waste of time just arm waving some conclusion.

I also refuse to believe you can't use google and you are basically just a sad troll sitting in his mothers basement with a tin foil hat on, spouting asshattery and then going off to 4-chan to frot about how you won troll warz or whatever **** those asssholes get up to.

[Xris]

I can see nothing of novel interest in your posts so I will leave you to your raving.

[Calrid]

I can see nothing of novel interest in your posts so I will leave you to your raving.

That's what your mum said.

You got nothing mate, you can't make extraordinary claims refuse to educate yourself and claim you have rewritten science because you can. You need to prove it, the onus is on you to substantiate your claims but you wont because I think you are trolling.

Put up or shut up, I have gone out of my way to give you links and to explain how interpretation issues of GR are all very well but you can't prove them. You have done nothing but obfuscate and avoid my questions. Are you always this obtuse?

[Xris]

(Nested quote removed.)


That's what your mum said.

You got nothing mate, you can't make extraordinary claims refuse to educate yourself and claim you have rewritten science because you can. You need to prove it, the onus is on you to substantiate your claims but you wont because I think you are trolling.

Put up or shut up, I have gone out of my way to give you links and to explain how interpretation issues of GR are all very well but you can't prove them. You have done nothing but obfuscate and avoid my questions. Are you always this obtuse?

If you can not accept the well known fact that gravity influences the passage of time there is no real point in continuing.

[Calrid]

(Nested quote removed.)

If you can not accept the well known fact that gravity influences the passage of time there is no real point in continuing.

I do accept that what you seem to fail to grasp is why and how we can know the energy gradients are not because of ether. I know Einstein himself said Luminous Aether had been slain, but ether could not be.

The fact there is energy permeating all space and field theory says gravity is never 0 is beside the point all this tells us is we do not need ether to explain anything, we do not however and can not prove it does not exist it is a matter of pure philosophy atm. I wont indulge in the science of philosophy and vise a versa to make positive claims when I should be agnostic. I agree it probably does not exist but I am leery of saying I know for sure it doesn't.

If you don't know something don't try to claim something is true without evidence, even Einstein was not that gauche- ether is at best irrelevant and at not quite best non existent, but we can not know that.

[Xris]

What exactly are you on about? I will say it one more time.If you are determined to deny the fact that gravity influences the passage of time there is no point in continuing.

[DarwinX]

The diffrence between science and magic is magic fools your senses with trickery, science tries to ignore the subjective and objectify results. What is magical it seems is that as we approach the classical limit things are very weird.

For example Scientists at NASA and a Nobel prize winner as well, proved that DNA enzymes use quantum mechanics to more efficiently locate and encode proteins. Which makes even our fabric quantum, hence we aught to be able to see what is going on but evolution seems to have left us without the tools to really see.

Is you substitute the word 'quantum' for the word 'magic' you will get a better idea of how science really works!! Science is mostly authoritarian nonsense which uses magic, smoke and mirror technology to fool the masses into thinking that they know something of importance, when in reality they know very little.

Definition of quantum - A term used by scientists when they haven't got a clue of what the hell is going on. It is often used to cover up their ignorance of science issues and also has the added benefit of making them sound knowledgeable on a subject.

[Calrid]

If you substitute the word no one cares unless you can prove it for magic you get no one cares. End of the day it's your claim you disprove it all science works your half baked rantiing against the machine does not. No one gives out prizes for the plucky losers, get some knowledge get some science and the beat the **** to death. It deserves it, but don't come to me and expect me to care if you're just some crackpot with a grudge, you should know by now you have to play the game, sure the games unfair and often you roll the dice and you lose, science is sloppy biased and useless at times, but that's science, if you are right no on can stop you. Claiming you have solved anything without doing anything but post on a philosophy forum is weak. You have however cleared up one point of the internet, everyone thinks they are entitled to an opinion and of course everyone is, but your still a **** if it's just arm waving.