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[EMTe]

In times when everything can be considered art and the word itself devaluated and its meaning broadened I think, instead of asking "is X art" and forcing people to narrow their discussions to relations between understanding of art and, as in this case, porn, it would be better to simply ask "what is porn" in relation to our lives.

Imho, porn except being source of sexual arousal for people who masturbate on daily basis around the world, has one distinctive characteristics: it holds out against political correctness. Porn appears to be the last field of human activity where traditional sex and race models are being kept and, surprisingly, nobody objects. Why it happens? Most likely because we perceive porn as the underlying truth about world and ourselves. During daylight, in social situations we play our wordgames full of sweet little lies, but at evening when nobody watches, we plunge into the world of white men who treat women how they should be treated (cumshots), where females are attractive and always willing to **** like they should and where groups of black males appear to be nothing more than a bunch of agressive chimpanzees. So, during masturbation, not only sexual tension is eased, but also social one - the world returns to its primal normality where white men rule.

[Belinda]

But do you think that 'primal normality' as you describe it was ever normal for humans? Other social animals such as birds, deer or horses have social rules which are so ingrained in the physical biology of the species behaviour that the rules serve to keep the species healthy as a species. For instance, rules about alpha males and females, and territorial rules. Similarly I cannot imagine how any social group of humans unless it held to social laws could survive independently of other groups.

True, in times of war when one group of humans sets out to pillage another group of humans, each of the the hostile tribes regard each other as less human . One well known example is in the Old Testament when the Israelites attack the Hittites and the Amorites ; the Israelites justify their war by telling themselves that they are better than their enemies

Tribe against tribe is similar to individual against individual because a ruling elite is necessary for keeping law and order. The strong one wins the elite crown, like the alpha male or female gets to keep the others in order(hard work but alphas seem to like it). Sexual treats are , like the best bits of meat, allotted by permission or neglect by the alpha. Predatory gangs of bachelor ' stags ' are unheard of in any species, except in human intertribal warfare and individual human social aberrations which are punishable either by social calumny or by the law.

There is some truth in what EMTe write, which is that 'white men rule'. This is, historically, true. The sort of attraction that gang rape by black men can have is engendered by the perception that lower class men such as black men are perceived as useful sex objects while white men are too lifelike for simplistic pornographic scenarios. Degrading higher social status persons to sex objects is also a porno theme, and is an idea which is not true to normal social life and in real life is both illegal and socially unacceptable.

[EMTe]

Now, when I think more of it, porn may the global lecture in psychoanalysis humankind is attending.

[Belinda]

I tried my darnedest to steer clear of any Freudian slips.

[EMTe]

Oh, but it wasn't your post that inspired my thought, I didnt even read it.

[Kiwi]

Supreme Court says pornography is anything without artistic merit that causes sexual thoughts, that's their definition, essentially. No artistic merit, causes sexual thoughts. Hmm... Sounds like...every commercial on television, doesn't it? You know, when I see those two twins on that Doublemint commercial? I'm not thinking of gum. I am thinking of chewing, so maybe that's the connection they're trying to make.

They're putting the cart before the horse on this pornography issue. Playboy doesn't cause sexual thoughts. There are sexual thoughts, and, therefore, there is Playboy. Don't you see? I know these sound like deep philosophical questions, "What came first, the hard-on or the Madonna video?" and "If a hard-on falls in the forest, do you go blind?" and "What does an atheist scream when they come?"

You know what causes sexual thoughts? I'm gonna clear the air for you tonight. I'm gonna end this debate, hopefully once and for all while on this planet, 'cause outer space awaits our presence, we are better and more unique creatures than this and all eternity is our playground, so let me go ahead and clear this one issue up once and for all and let's move on to real issues. Can we? Great.

Here's what causes sexual thoughts. Ready, drumroll: having a dick.

[Misty]

Here's what causes sexual thoughts. Ready, drumroll: having a dick.

You left out half the worlds population, the female. I am female and I don't have a dick appendage. Can you please drum roll again and include the females?

[Kiwi]

(Nested quote removed.)


You left out half the worlds population, the female. I am female and I don't have a dick appendage. Can you please drum roll again and include the females?

I apologise , of course females experience sexual thoughts as well, which are caused by, drumroll : having a vagina

[EMTe]

The topic would prove to be much more interesting if youd tried to defend your stance instead of apologizing and whining in front of woman.

[Kiwi]

The topic would prove to be much more interesting if youd tried to defend your stance instead of apologizing and whining in front of woman.

[Misty]

(Nested quote removed.)


I apologise , of course females experience sexual thoughts as well, which are caused by, drumroll : having a vagina

Kiwi, THANK YOU!

[EMTe]

I see one can only dream that porn topic would involve at least tiny bits of oldschool macho chauvinism.

On topic. I said that porn in some ways is similar to psychoanalysis. Check the quickly raising popularity of CFNM porn. In reality, it's virtually impossible that a grown-up male would let himself be humiliated by the group of women, it would only increase his anxiety and probably the whole situation wouldnt even turn him on. So there must be something else in these scenes which makes them so popular. One interpretation is that these scenes remind males of their childhood years when they were standing naked in the bathtub and were being bathed by mothers. This was not at all sexual situation as kids don't have sexual drive in proper "adult" sense, but since bathing involves touching it can be understood as form of grooming. Now, these memories about bathing or simply being touched are extracted from the unconscious by "porn" scenes and since males now experience sexual drive they are turned on by them. So, the scene which would be considered embarrassing and asexual in real life serves as the bridge between unconscious and conscious and shows that grooming by mother is also a sexual, or better to say pre-sexual, behaviour. In fact every social behaviour is, but it's another story.

[Belinda]

EMTe Porn scenarios that show power games are the norm, for porn, because sex is not immune to the power plays that infest typical human relationships.

Psychoanalysis is not needed, but anthropology is.

[Logic_ill]

Maybe power plays are a natural part of our sexualities. It may be subconsciously there, but our ability to reason or need to pretend may not allow it to surface.

Sex is one of our basic instincts, so we may have the same or similar drives as other mammals, and that is processed or shows up in our imaginations as taboo scenarios. Taboo because we may not be able to perform them in real life, or don't want to.

Some people may not be able to discriminate between reality and fantasy when it comes to sex, so they take off to try to satiate them. Some may realize that there is a difference between the real thing and the fantasy: sometimes the fantasy is more powerful, sometimes the reality is better.

The problem with reality is finding willing partners that fit our immaginations. Many people then revert to fantasy and elaborate on them, sometimes upping the ante to get similar effects. People, in reality, may do the same thing: up the ante. "spice things up".

But this happens more often with the sexually experienced, not the newbie's.

[Belinda]

Maybe power plays are a natural part of our sexualities.

I understand that most human brains, i.e. typical human brains are structured so that the need to affiliate is stronger than the need for facts. Power of elites is an inevitable adjunct to affiliations of all and any sorts.

Sex is natural and basic to all humans, including those others who are not enchanted by overwhelming need to collect social support. The others have slightly different brain structures and don't filter facts as do the affiliators.

The symbolism of power plays in porn scenarios, such as rape, seduction, killing and other violence against weaker creatures, is aimed at this need for power over others which infiltrates, not only religions, politics and commerce , but even the powerful, pure and simple urge to sex.