Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

Philosophy Discussion Forums
A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

The Philosophy Forums at OnlinePhilosophyClub.com aim to be an oasis of intelligent in-depth civil debate and discussion. Topics discussed extend far beyond philosophy and philosophers. What makes us a philosophy forum is more about our approach to the discussions than what subject is being debated. Common topics include but are absolutely not limited to neuroscience, psychology, sociology, cosmology, religion, political theory, ethics, and so much more.

This is a humans-only philosophy club. We strictly prohibit bots and AIs from joining.


Discuss the November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes.

To post in this forum, you must buy and read the book. After buying the book, please upload a screenshot of your receipt or proof or purchase via OnlineBookClub. Once the moderators approve your purchase at OnlineBookClub, you will then also automatically be given access to post in this forum.
Forum rules: This forum is for discussing the book In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All. Anyone can view the forum and read the post, but only people who purchased the book can post in the forum.

If your purchase has not already been verified (i.e. if you don't already have access to post in this forum), then please upload a screenshot of your receipt or proof or purchase via OnlineBookClub. Once the moderators approve your purchase at OnlineBookClub, you will then also automatically be given access to post in this forum.
#464204
If you haven't already, you can sign up to be personally mentored by Scott "Eckhart Aurelius" Hughes at this link.

Eckhart Aurelius Hughes wrote:
"There is nothing you need to do." (In It Together, Page 84)

"The incessant anxious feeling like something needs to be done, something must be done, or something is lacking are all symptoms of discontent." (In It Together, Page 117)

"Nothing must be done that isn’t done." (In It Together, Page 132)

"Must and choice are incompatible. Nothing must be done that isn’t done." (In It Together, Page 135)
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes wrote: June 8th, 2024, 2:06 am 1. You don't need to believe in god.
Moisés Alcántara Ayre wrote: June 20th, 2024, 7:57 amI really don't understand # 1. As a Christian, believing in God is what has changed my whole life for the better, and without Him, everything was not life at its fullest. Having being created in the likeness of God motivates me every day: His Word in the Bible lights all darkness.

Hi, Moisés Alcántara Ayre,

First, I want to say thank you so much for your intriguing questions and the thought-provoking conversations we are having. I love learning about different perspectives and viewpoints, and I love discussions like these. So I truly and deeply thank you.

Second, I want to say that I do not disagree with anything you have written above.

However, what I would disagree with is if you followed everything you have written above with the sentence, "Thus, I need to believe in God."

I would not only disagree with that conclusion, but I would disagree that anything you've written above supports that conclusion at all.

In analogy, to me, it would be like saying the following:

Cats are mammals.
Dogs have fur.
Therefore, two plus two equals five.

The premises (i.e. the first two sentences) are true, but they don't support the conclusion.


Perhaps an even better analogy would be this:

Cats are mammals.
Dogs have fur.
Therefore, you need to believe in God.


As best I can tell, the conclusion that you allegedly need to believe in God simply does not logically follow from the other statements you made, which are all agreeable:

"As a Christian, believing in God is what has changed my whole life for the better, and without Him, everything was not life at its fullest. Having being created in the likeness of God motivates me every day: His Word in the Bible lights all darkness."

To demonstrate what I mean more specifically, imagine I wrote this:

"As a father, having kids is what has changed my whole life for the better; And, without my kids, I would not be living my life to its fullest. Having kids motivates me every day. For me, my kids light up the darkness."

We can agree that all of the above is true, but still acknowledge that I don't need to have kids. I don't have to have kids. I'm not required to have kids. Having kids is not something I must do and is not something anyone must do. In the same way, believing in God is not something anyone must choose to do or must choose not to do.

There may be many reasons why someone, such as me or you, would want to have kids or not. There might be many reasons why someone, such as you or me, might want to believe in God or be Christian.

There may be many reasons why someone, such as me or you, would choose to have kids or not. Likewise, there might be many reasons why someone, such as you or me, might choose to believe in God or be Christian.

But it would be inaccurate to conflate desire or choice with must or necessity.

And, by extension, it would be inaccurate to conflate reasons for wanting something or reasons for choosing something with reasons for needing to do something.

There are never any valid reasons for needing to do something (in the unconditional sense) because there is nothing you need to do. There is nothing you must do.

As my book teaches and explains in much more detail, must and choice are incompatible. Not only are they not the same thing, but they are basically opposites. Insofar as you don't have a choice about something that's being done or happening, then it's not something you—meaning the real you—are doing. Insofar as you do have a choice, then you are omnipotent over that choice. There's no room for real true spiritual slavery or such. There's no room for musts, or need tos, or have tos. When it comes to your choices, you always get exactly what you want, meaning what you choose.

Whether you like it or not, you have that spiritual freedom.

The opposite (i.e. spiritual slavery) is always fundamentally an illusion. Typically, a self-deceiving dishonest delusion, riddled with dishonest denial and unacceptance about reality being the way it simply is.

'Must', 'need to', and 'have to' are all miserable slave words.
 
Political freedom can be infringed. A person can put a gun to your head and order you around.

But your spiritual freedom can never be infringed.

Spiritually speaking, whether you like it or not, you are free, always. One can be honest and happily accepting about it, or the opposite: dishonest and resentful.

I'm not personally religious, but to any religious person who does believe in a God, I imagine that God would give much less credit to you if you had to believe in him rather than that you didn't have to but rather chose to. Because if you have to (a.k.a. need to, or must), then it's not a choice, at least not a free one. In analogy, I love compliments, but if you are only giving them to me because you have a gun to your head, then I'm not going to give you much credit at all, if any. Even if the gun is imaginary, and is just a hallucination, it would still render the would-be compliment meaningless. If you are only complimenting me because you (falsely) believe you have a gun to your head, then it's like you really didn't compliment me at all.

If there is a God similar to what is described in the Abrahamic religions (namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), I don't purport to know the mind of that God. But my best guess would be that he would treat it the same to believe in him because you need to (or believe you need to) the same as he would treat not believing in him at all.

The property doesn't get credit for what the property owner makes the property do. If you are just slave-like property being required to believe in God or practice faith or pray or compliment or whatever, then you get no credit for doing that, and only the person or thing doing the requiring gets the credit, not the thing required.

Slaves obeying musts and need tos and have tos don't get any credit. Only free people get credit.

Without choice, there is nothing to credit you for.

If I didn't have any choice about being or at least behaving like a loving father to my kids, then it wouldn't even be something I am doing, and certainly wouldn't be something that had any honor or for which I would deserve or get any rightful credit.

Maybe your God is immune to flattery or such, but, if not, I imagine he'd be much more flattered if you said, "God, I could choose to not worship you, to not thank you, and to not have faith in you. I have that freedom. Yet, I use that freedom to choose to have faith in you, to choose to thank you, and to choose to worship you."

If someone said that to me, I'd open up my golden gates and let them in my awesome house. But if they said they only believe in me or like me or whatever because they (believe that they) have to, and that (they believe) it's thus not something they are choosing, then I'd keep my door closed to them and send them somewhere else. :lol: 

If you are saying and doing it because you believe you have to, then it's like you're not saying or doing it at all.

I don't believe in anything supernatural as to love and worship it, but I do love and worship my kids. And I never say something like, "I have to pick my kids up from school today." But I often say, "I want to pick up my kids from school today." And I often say, "I choose to pick my kids up from school today."

How sad it must be for the kids whose parents are there only because they believe they have to be. And vice versa, be that a sad literal parent or a disappointed heavenly guy in the sky.



With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott


Must and choice are incompatible.png
Must and choice are incompatible.png (1.55 MiB) Viewed 2284 times


In addition to having authored his book, In It Together, Eckhart Aurelius Hughes (a.k.a. Scott) runs a mentoring program, with a free option, that guarantees success. Success is guaranteed for anyone who follows the program.
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
#464242
I totally agree with what you said above, Scott. I am not a religious person either, and it is something that I do not believe that I have to do. For those who are religious, that's fine. Believe who and what you choose to. I, however, choose not to believe what most people do, and I have my own ideas on religion and God. I was born and raised Catholic, but because of circumstances, I do not practice anymore. You must not feel like you have to believe in God but choose to believe if that's what you wish.
#468393
When it comes to believing or religion, I believe it has greater significance when it is something chosen based on sincere conviction rather than feeling like it is required or required of you. When faith is freely accepted rather than practiced out of fear or coercion, it seems to have its true beauty. What if we were obligated to be in our relationships rather than because we were in love? Without a question, that would lessen the richness and contentment that result from those connections. Similar to this, following a path in life out of desire rather than obligation can result in far greater satisfaction than following a path related to faith, love, or anything else.

Current Philosophy Book of the Month

Zen and the Art of Writing

Zen and the Art of Writing
by Ray Hodgson
September 2024

2025 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Riddle of Alchemy

The Riddle of Alchemy
by Paul Kiritsis
January 2025

They Love You Until You Start Thinking For Yourself

They Love You Until You Start Thinking For Yourself
by Monica Omorodion Swaida
February 2025

2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...
by Indignus Servus
November 2024

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age
by Elliott B. Martin, Jr.
October 2024

Zen and the Art of Writing

Zen and the Art of Writing
by Ray Hodgson
September 2024

How is God Involved in Evolution?

How is God Involved in Evolution?
by Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano
August 2024

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters
by Howard Wolk
July 2024

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side
by Thomas Richard Spradlin
June 2024

Neither Safe Nor Effective

Neither Safe Nor Effective
by Dr. Colleen Huber
May 2024

Now or Never

Now or Never
by Mary Wasche
April 2024

Meditations

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius
March 2024

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

The In-Between: Life in the Micro

The In-Between: Life in the Micro
by Christian Espinosa
January 2024

2023 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021


as per my above post, other people have the ro[…]

To reduce confusion and make the discussion more r[…]

Feelings only happen in someone's body, n[…]

Materialism Vs Idealism

Idealism and phenomenology are entirely artificial[…]